i hate it when wizards in books or whatever are like "magic and science are inherently incompatible" go home, sorcerer, the adults are talking

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science is just a way of thinking about "things that happen"! different things that happen can't be "compatible" or "incompatible" with science

science is not a set of events or discoveries, it's how you think about the things you see

if magic exists, you can do science to it

this is my favourite toot in the thread but no one else liked it so i had to boost it myself smh

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@InspectorCaracal i find myself actively disinterested in stories where they don't do science to the magic

i really wanna read the laundry series

@monorail

magic and impericism? might be compatible, up to the writer

magic and engineering? see above

magic and science, though? science is the /attempt/ to apply imperical reasoning to a thing, it doesn't matter whether or not it works!

@chao @monorail I think you mean empiricism. i was pretty confused at first

spoilers: MLP:FiM season 1 episode 15

 

re: spoilers: MLP:FiM season 1 episode 15

 

@monorail "We place no reliance on virgin or pigeon. Our method is science, our aim is religion."

@monorail one fiction universe i like to read says "magic is a way of rewriting the rules of reality". but the way it is taught is full of rules and traditions! what's up? the "rules" they teach in class are actually safety rails that fizzle the spell when you screw up, instead of .... worse possibilities.

@monorail
Perhaps magic is a way of thinking about things that happen too? One that places a much higher value on what people want?

Now, in our world, lots of things are usefully thought about with science, and few are usefully thought about with magic - but not none. Mindfulness meditation, for example, can be easier if you think about the inner workings of your head magically.

A fantasy world could work in a way where science was just not a helpful way of understanding it.

@monorail My fav example of the melding of these worlds is the discworld magicians have a "high energy magic" department that does science to magic

@monorail I'm a cross-class witch and engineer.

They're Not incompatible.

We have Glass Rectangles instead of Crystal balls. Technology is just magic done out the hard way.

@monorail oh god now i can't help but think about what silicon valley would do to the world if magic were well known, studied, and a part of STEM

@monorail When I use that trope, what I mean with it is: magic is not a reproducible phenomenon. People can achieve results, but they vary in such a way that even if they could be directly observed and tested no conclusions could be easily pulled from the observed dataset.

It is even better when magic “actively resists observation” — when magical practice adversarially stops producing consistent results during supervised experiments.

@monorail experimenters are, also, generally human: it is absolutely an okay attribute to ascribe to magic to produce disbelief in an experimenter even if they could make all the reproducible experiments they wanted, and lead them to irrationally believe that the results are inconclusive or a waste of time.

@monorail these apply to magic seen as generation of some range of results through willpower or ritual action; a similar setup applies differently to magic that occurs due to dialogue or intercession with sapient forces, since at that point the notion of a reproducible experiment kind of goes out the window.

@millenomi @monorail sounds like it would become more psychology, in that latter case [which some might argue is itself not a science...]

@snailerotica @monorail the story/idea space of “Magic does not gel with science this way: what would science do to produce useful results anyway?” is fascinating to me.

@snailerotica @monorail but I imagine that what would happen is closer to psychology or sociology, yes (eg rather than actively measuring during the application of magic, compiling a posteriori datasets about magic use, then how hypotheses fit with those results.)

@monorail I know I'm replying to an ancient post but honestly the story that spawned the world and magic that my game Shield Cat is based in, like that story was about magicians who wanted to transcend traditional magic and apply a science to it so you could make your own spells

@monorail You're absolutely right but this is making me think about

What DO these people mean when they say "science" then

Like. There's an idea there. It's not science, but I don't know what word to use for it

@monorail magic does exist, it's called electromagnetism

@monorail there's also two fields of Deep Magic, that have yet to be properly understood and harnessed for wizardly use, which are called quantum electrodynamics and quantum chromodynamics. And then there's also general relativity. General relativity does not play nice with the deep magicks.

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