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intro to ableism so you can avoid it Show more

ยท Web ยท 2 ยท 22 ยท 17

fun fact, every time you drop an ableist slur, chances are, someone is hurt (me, for instance)

part of the reason i think ableism is so hard to unlearn is because there isnt really much of a slot in replacement

because if you are saying anything in the same vein, you're still being ableist

the closest you can do is relate the thing that usually causes you to say something ableist instead to your personal experience

for instance
instead of saying a thing is (ableist slur goes here) because its frsutrating, bad for the user, etc

you can say "wow i hate that"

now its about your personal experience

that's valid, and not ableist

it's even alright to say "god that sucks" about something like a programming library

because, that's fine, that's true

a library can in fact, suck

the problem comes when you relate it to say, the person who made the library

"linus torvalds sucks" is in fact, an ableism

@kurisu not as much, but if you are saying a person,l as a whole, sucks, it is in fact ableist

@kurisu saying "this sucks" isn't ableist

saying "you suck" is

@mew I think that some people have bad morals, and this makes their interests less important than people of moral integrity

Is this an ableist point of view?

@LogicalDash no because you are not stating that these people are inherently Worse somehow

just that their interests are less important, on account of the people being assholes

@mew I don't understand the difference between calling them assholes and saying they suck

@mew And I *am* saying that they're worse. They have worse morals. Values, ethics. That's what makes people worse than other people

@LogicalDash not sure if i can say that that isnt ableist but its also a weird case, coz those are concious decisions people are making, and thus you are judging their actions, and not their person, if that makes sense

@LogicalDash you are saying they as a sum up of their influence on their world, suck

if you said they as a person, inherently, can never Not Suck then yes that is ableism

if you are stating that their actions and public face on what they put into the world currently sucks its not ableist

@mew I guess I've never understood sucking to be a permanent and irreversible kind of thing, any more than assholery

Like how saying a baseball player sucks means they suck at playing baseball, saying a person sucks means they suck at being a person

But people's morals do improve sometimes

@LogicalDash lets hope at least

a lot of people have a long way to go in improvement

@mew So anyway I don't agree that by judging a person's morals I'm judging their actions and not their person

I have to infer people's morals by observing their actions, but the morals themselves are internal

Linus is currently acting like a moral person but I don't trust that he really is, because it took a journalistic investigation to get him here

So I currently believe him to be bad

I hope he proves me wrong

@LogicalDash morals are a thing we outwardly show, and the only way one can judge someone's morals is based on the way they are outwardly shown

thusly: we are judging someone's outward actions and personal choices, not the person themself

@mew I don't agree. We still hold our morals when we have no ability to act on them, even when we *fail* to act on them, because we judge ourselves harshly for that failure

Now, it may not always make a difference whether someone is behaving evilly because they lack the willpower to do good, or because they don't think it's evil. But there *is* a difference, and I may treat someone differently depending on my guess as to the sincerity of their remorse

@mew There's a certain brand of huge asshole you can find on *chans and the like who understands patriarchy and knows it's oppressive and gleefully does it anyway because he benefits from it and doesn't care who knows it

That person is worse than people who do similarly oppressive things out of ignorance or habit. But he's just as bad as the person who knows it's oppressive, does it anyway, and persuasively plays ignorant

The latter is likely more dangerous though

@LogicalDash i dont have the spoons to consider this more

we can maybe chat about it later if you like

@LogicalDash someone outwardly, being an asshole, is something you can observe, and state as fact

by saying they, as an entire person however, "suck" you are saying they are less human via subtext

@mew it's like, i go searching through my word banks for a word that means "someone wasn't thinking things all the way through / paying attention when they made that decision" and end up stuck on "ok uhhh what do i say instead. foolish? no that means like a fool. uhhh idiotic? no, that's just idiot. ridiculous/silly isn't quite right because it's not funny or worthy of ridicule. uhhhhhhh" because society has done such a thorough job of making our only words for that be those put-downs

@lifning yyyyyyyep its so rough >.<

a word i like is "messy"

ie, an api is "messy"

its not inherently bad

its just a mess

@mew tbh i sometimes even see some people who try and avoid using words like stupid say the phrase "deluding yourself" or call others delusional and it rlly bugs me

@headachebooth delusional and deluding yourself are also ableisms

@mew yeh, i just mean like people who avoid other ableist words sometimes don't avoid those for some reason
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